Abul Taher
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THE Archbishop of Canterbury has said that the United States wields its power in a way that is worse than Britain during its imperial heyday.
Rowan Williams claimed that America’s attempt to intervene overseas by “clearing the decks” with a “quick burst of violent action” had led to “the worst of all worlds”.
In a wide-ranging interview with a British Muslim magazine, the Anglican leader linked criticism of the United States to one of his most pessimistic declarations about the state of western civilisation.
He said the crisis was caused not just by America’s actions but also by its misguided sense of its own mission. He poured scorn on the “chosen nation myth of America, meaning that what happens in America is very much at the heart of God’s purpose for humanity”.
Williams went beyond his previous critique of the conduct of the war on terror, saying the United States had lost the moral high ground since September 11. He urged it to launch a “generous and intelligent programme of aid directed to the societies that have been ravaged; a check on the economic exploitation of defeated territories; a demilitarisation of their presence”.
He went on to suggest that the West was fundamentally adrift: “Our modern western definition of humanity is clearly not working very well. There is something about western modernity which really does eat away at the soul.”
Williams suggested American leadership had broken down: “We have only one global hegemonic power. It is not accumulating territory: it is trying to accumulate influence and control. That’s not working.”
He contrasted it unfavourably with how the British Empire governed India. “It is one thing to take over a territory and then pour energy and resources into administering it and normalising it. Rightly or wrongly, that’s what the British Empire did — in India, for example.
“It is another thing to go in on the assumption that a quick burst of violent action will somehow clear the decks and that you can move on and other people will put it back together — Iraq, for example.”
In the interview in Emel, a Muslim lifestyle magazine, Williams makes only mild criticisms of the Islamic world. He said the Muslim world must acknowledge that its “political solutions were not the most impressive”.
He commends the Muslim practice of praying five times a day, which he says allows the remembrance of God to be “built in deeply in their daily rhythm”.
Is the archbishop aware of what imperialistic Britain did? I only have two words: Opium Wars
Bob, Smigginlan,
The Archbishop is bang right . He is trying to reach out in love and honesty to Muslims in our community. The superficiality and viciousness of our Media make it hard for this great and holy man to be heard. But he is slowly getting through. We shall not save our Christian brothers in the Middle East, or settle down to fight Global Warming with Islam on side, until we accept our own shortcomings and policy failures. Torture and mayhem are the same whether delivered by a terrorist or by a sanctimonious superpower. Others can see that even if we can't.
Godfrey Meynell, Derby, England
If the US had stayed out of WW2 and the allies had lost, the Brits would still never have let the Germans occupy the country.
If the Vietnamese could hold off the so-called awesome might of the US Army, we'd have had no trouble repelling the Germans.
Saying the US won WW2 is like saying they landed on the moon. All praise the Hollywood propoganda machine - the WMD of cultural imperialism.
Tim, Auckland,
The Archbishop, with all due respect, is wrong on every front. His appreciation of the history of the British Empire and its subjugation and exploitation is certainly a matter of historical record and in a relative and absolute sense, far more heinous then anything ever done by America.
For some peculiar reason, he panders to Muslims-I don't understand the reason for this. Ironically, one of the major gifts imparted to the world by the British, their system of law, is something that he has seen fit to actively undermine by advocating for Sharia-even in the UK, itself. And perhaps he should speak for himself regarding moral confusion and emptiness. Is the daily subjugation of women, butchery and medeival primitiveness of much of the Muslim world in some way preferable?
To the Archbishop of Canterbury I say this, perhaps you should go to Saudi Arabia and advocate for the rule of law and see what happens.
Jon, Reston, Virginia
Susan of Los Angeles makes some good points - the Brits were not angels. But she should refine her own knowledge of history a little. Britain did not actually back the Confederacy in the American Civil War - she came close to it, but Gettesburg concentrated a lot of minds in London. Secondly, thanks to Wilberforce, Britain actually outlawed slavery before America (having made a lot of money out of it earlier).
David, Ligneyrac, France
"Perhaps the bigger issue, though, is that the US installs its own puppet regimes friendly to US "interests" and then calls this process "demoracy." What right-thinking person would favor "democracy" defined in this twisted way? Augusto Pinochet, Manuel Noriega, Ferdinand Marcos, and the House of Saud (and the list goes on and on and on) are shining examples of US-sponsored "democracy"?"
While it is true that US foreign policy was to prop up military dictators of third world countries (so long as they were pro-American), that was in the past. You seem to forget that we have shed ourselves of such a ridiculous policy long ago and have embarked on promoting democracy instead. Noriega is now serving a 40 year prison term in the US. Who brought down Noriega and replaced his dictatorship with a democracy? America. Who took down Marcos so that democracy can thrive in his country? America. Who helped to fund the democratic opposition to Pinochet? America.
Richard, New York, NY, USA
And when have the Americans forced another population to abandon its language, culture ad religion as the English did when "they ruled the world"? How many were denied schooling and killed if they spoke their own tongue such as the Irish? Or how about those concentration camps set up in Africa? The reason that English French and Spanish spread so far throughout the world is because they were spread by bloodshed.
Hindsight is lovely, but it won't wash the blood off England's hands. The US has a LONG way to go to even approach what the British did. Their record in China is the most appalling thing I have ever read - they enslaved a nation and sold drugs, making Columbia's drug lords these days look like relative angels. Oh, and don't forget that England backed the slave trade in the America civil war - because hey were worried about cotton costs going up.
The man needs to read up on his history.
Susan, los angeles, california, USA
This has probably been said before, but remember gunboat diplomacy brought to us by Britain? Britain also seemed to do a pretty nice job of "wielding influence" in Ireland as well. Let's not forget those great Borders in Africa that have fanned years of conflict, And the mideast, the piece de resistance of British diplomacy: promising a homeland to both Zionists and Palestinians (a masterstroke) And not to take a swipe at the good Archbishop (for it is unkind to kick a man when he is down and I really do want to like the C of E), but really, look to your own crumbling house first. Anyone else think he is pandering to Islam? Also, if he is concerned with the drift of Western Society he should look no further than the spineless form of Christianity his church espouses
Dan Gallagher, Fornham St Martin, UK
Looks like Rowan Williams, Harold Pinter, Kurt Vonnegut, and quite a few religious and secular humanist intellectuals will not be on Bush's 'Christmas Party at the White House' invitations this year.
Alan MacDonald, Sanford, Maine, US
Its true, the United States really is an ass when it comes to foreign affairs; but the blame lies in its political power and government, not 29. Necessarily in its inhabitants, speaking from this point in time, 10 percent of the population actually votes these clowns in, 10-20 percent canât because they donât have citizenship, and I have no idea what the rest are doing. But I do agree with a previous comment on how the US is fast acting, because it really is emotionally driven, and in the long run that is not the greatest attribute.
One thing I will comment on is the corruption of the media. It is a large driving force and it is very biased. Just listen to CNN, you can hear all the hate and bias without trying to. Its things like this that really make a person question their governing body's morality and placement in the world. I think alot of people see that now, the US has made a mistake that can not be patched up easily.
Airyie, Dallas, Texas USA
I am neither american...nor european ...nor English...
All i can say is that America is the new British. as in...first it was britian...now American thats pretty much doing the same...except it does it through more subtle (WTO regime) and not so subtle ways (IraQ, vIETNAM). American is basically an opportunist..it sees a country in strife..it runs there ..proclaims " We are here to install a Democratic government ...this is for the people of blah! blah@! blah..." In reality, it goes to these places, for placing their weapons, installing their army and gaining access to the nation's resources. THE INTENT REMAINS THE SAME. So when i see the americans accusing the brits..and even funnier the Brits accusing the Americans! to both i would say "LOOK WHO'S TALKING"
And that was the single most ridiculous self-indulgent statement about Britain putting its own resources in India??!?! The used INDIAN resources, drained all the money, jewels..and LEFT. Hilarious comment from mr. bishop
silver, Delhi, India
How far do we have to go back ? Maybe to French aid to the fledging US colonies enabling them to secure their independence from Britain ? To WW2, WW1 ? Both of these wars the US entered reluctantly - in fact only when forced to . In WW1 only after the European powers had bled themselves to a standstill and the absolute horror / casualties finally got the US public on side, In WW2 only Japan got the US into the war -again almost 2 years after it started.... Long before the Marshal Plan (more about saving Europe from communism than any altruistic move by the US) the US was providing lend-lease aid to Britain, who had to pay for each and every cent of the help they received. The US as any power, only acts in its own self interest as in WW1/ WW2. How US interests have been served by Vietnam and Iraq, filled inbetween by Chile, El Salvaor, Nicaragua, Gautemala etc in incomprehensible
Tony Plowman, Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Can someone please argue why I should not withdraw from the Episcopal Church of America (American branch of the Anglican Communion) in light of the Archbishop's narrow and anti-American views regarding our foreign poiicy in the Middle East? I have tolerated the Episcopal Church's "in your face" support of openly gay leadership in the Bishopry, but the Archbishop's recent attack targets me personally as a supporter of our country's noble foreign policy.
Bill, Jacksonville, Florida USA
The comments on this story tell a sorry tale: each one eager to invoke the Marshall Plan as a grand sign of U.S. largesse toward Europe, but apparently having forgotten that that's the kind of thing that we did fifty years ago under a Democratic administration. Today, we have spent more money destroying Iraq than we spent during the ENTIRE Marshall Plan, even after having adjusted for inflation -- and instead of winning the goodwill of the Europe and the whole world as we did then, we have alienated everyone. Silly people, the Archbishop isn't some kind of lone left-wing voice shouting into the wind; it is you who are the tiny reactionary minority who still imagine that there is something good to be said about George Bush's debacle in Iraq.
David Cunningham, Holland, Michigan
Archbishop is just jealous that America is the only strong country today. America helped Europe in their time of need, and what do we get back? Nothing, not a thanks or anything. In fact all we get is criticism! I for one think that it is almost sad, but it is mostly funny. Rag on your own country; just don't rag on the one that saved you sorry buts when you needed it.
Matt, AZ, USA
The Archbishop not only overstates any historical kindness engaged in by the British toward their colonies, he totally overlooks the immense amount of good works Americans have performed around the world. Do I have to mention the Marshall Plan and the reconstruction of Japan to make the point clear?
Perhaps American largesse at the end of World War II doesn't impress the Archbishop. Well then, consider Iraq. We took that nation in three weeks and IMMEDIATELY began to rebuild their infrastructure. The subsequent destruction there can be laid squarely at the feet of the insurgence, INCLUDING al Qaeda. Remember al Qaeda? They're the ones who attacked us on Sept. 11.
Christianity is not furthered by left-wing revisionism by its leaders, especially in the day of the Internet. Google "American reconstruction in Iraq" or "al Qaeda suicide bombers in Iraq"and learn the truth. By so doing, you'll also learn you can no longer depend on the word of an archbishop.
Sally Morem, Le Sueur, Minnesota, USA
U.S. is the source of all the world's evil.
British colonialism wasn't too bad for the natives.
Muslims are to be admired for "god built deeply into their daily rhythm".
Such foolish insight and appeasement makes it clear why the Anglican Church worldwide is in such disarray. I'm sure the ArchBishop will tell us he's negotiated "Peace in Our Times" next.
Patrick Kearns, Cardiff, US/California
Our euro-peon counsins keep going on and on about being tired of Americans reminding them of how our contributions during World War II saved them. Maybe they should start asking their grandparents just how close to starving to death they were had it not been for us barbaric Americans coming to "their" rescue. No we didn't win the war single-handed, however, the number of troops wearing Americans uniforms was "double" what they put in the field. During the cold war years, our euro-peon cousins rebuilt their cities thanks to American taxpayers all the while those same taxpayers paid to field an American military force capable of detering the Red Horde while our euro-peon cousins provided very little towards their own national defense against that Red Horde. All us barbaric Americans want in return is for our euro-peon cousins to show some gratitude.
Steve, Helena , MT
Hitler's foreign minister Joachim von Ribbentrop listed three main reasons for Germany's defeat:
Unexpectedly stubborn resistance from the Soviet Union
"The large-scale supply of arms and equipment from the US to the Soviet Union, under the lend-lease agreement"
"The success of the Western Allies in the struggle for air supremacy."
Any questions? Oh, and let's not forget about WW 1, and American aid, but American blood spilt in Europes war.
And how about the Cold War, where Europe was under the constant threat of Soviet aggression? Who stood up more the the Soviets? Who caused them to spend billions of dollars to compete with and fight proxy wars? You got it: America.
toekneemac, Orland Park, USA, IL
I always find it amusing when my fellow citizens' "remind" Europeans that "if it weren't for us, you'd all be speaking German". I would like to refresh their faulty memories by pointing out that we were quite content to swoon over Scarlett & Rhett and jitterbug at Roseland while Herr Hitler & Co. gobbled up continental Europe at the same time annoying the Russians and entertaining the British with his little blitzkrieg. It wasn't until our friends from Japan came calling that we were suddenly very interested in saving Europe from the dreaded German language.
Oh, and Rowan? I should like to remind you that the noble sentiment expressed by the phrase "white man's burden" went out of fashion quite some time ago. Refresh your own memory by re-reading your history and studying some contemporary photographs. You might find that the BE was not quite as benign a master as you seem to recall.
Donald, Albany, US
It's one of those cleva bri'isch ideeas to throw rocks while sitting in a glass house, hmm...and while we are at the subject: "let the one who is without sin amongst us throw the first stone"..
Tom Wolf, Ocean City, New Jersey, USA
Please forgive roger from Los Angeles' ignorance about world history in his remark that 'Russians broke Hitler's machine'. Without US help, the USSR would have starved or ran out of ammo,,,Google Tehran Conference. But this is what you get when you have revisionist anti-American professors training up the teachers to whom we entrust our childrens education.
Michael Phelan, Twin Falls, ID
It is interesting to note criticism of religion trepassing on politics and the call to leave God out politics. Here is a reminder the it was Bush's politics trepassing into religion with his Godly directive to start a modem "Crusade" in the Middle East, in his own outspoken words in his most defining moment.
Victor Huang, Fremont, U.S.A./California
I am of the opinion that American people who go on about WWII have been watching too much Holliwood history, and should start reading some books. Holliwood has created many myths.
Peter, Dublin, Ireland
The sick self-hating moral decay of the left will destroy Europe.
steven, chicago, USA
Perhaps the ABC should more concern himself with the decline of Religious beliefs in the UK. Or perhaps by criticizing other nations the ABC feels his own Church's poor job performance will be forgotten? Or perhaps he should speak more about his concern (if he has any) that the majority of violence in the Middle East is between Muslims?
Ian, Madison, USA
Perhaps the archbishop should take a look again at British Policies during the height of their power, which has long been past, other than still clutching to the coat tails of America. America has never had empire, we didn't try to conquer the world, if that had been the case western Europe would be States of America. American bashing gets so old, is a weak America better For Europe? Perhaps The archbishop should wonder why his own church numbers in England are shrinking as well as its demographics compared to those of their Muslim counterparts. Perhaps he does and is simply preparing for his country's and church's fate.
Travis Hensley, Vacaville CA, USA
The real problem that underpin's the United States' foreign policies is that they so utterly contradict most of the basic concepts upon which the nation was founded. The US was not meant to be an empire; it was meant to be the anithesis of empire & aristocratic/inherited power. Sadly, we so often become the thing we fear. Kids become their parents; the harder they try, the more likely it is.
Perhaps the bigger issue, though, is that the US installs its own puppet regimes friendly to US "interests" and then calls this process "demoracy." What right-thinking person would favor "democracy" defined in this twisted way? Augusto Pinochet, Manuel Noriega, Ferdinand Marcos, and the House of Saud (and the list goes on and on and on) are shining examples of US-sponsored "democracy"? I wouldn't want anything to do with it either.
And, of course, until the US fixes its own democratic process, it should just mind its own business.
Tim, Dunedin (formerly Wash., DC), NZ
Ok, So America is Imperialist?
Can you list how?
I can wait..
LJ, New Bern, NC USA
Mr Rowan Williams,
Biblical Christianity will soon return to the Anglican Church
Clifford, Waimea, Hawaii
Pot and Kettle springs to mind. The British Empire was built on equal parts piracy and hypocrisy. If I might recommend Niall Ferguson's work on the British Empire? A lucid account, not too challenging, the nature of Empire and the role of the church are expressed in an intelligent way that would hopefully be accessible enough that Mr Williams would not commit solecisms of this nature when thay are so unfounded. Well founded solecisms would be a pleasant change.
Rowan Williams seems to have a very selective view of history, but then a gift for self-delusion must be assumed - the man is, after all, a christian.
Kidd Garrett, Bristol, UK
I have a solution!
Since we're all such ungrateful recipients of the valiant and noble "good works" of the good old US of A why don't you all poke your imperialist heads back down your own burrows and let the rest of the ungrateful world get on with its own business? Perhaps then you could focus on reducing your national debt which now stands at $9.1 trillion (http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/) and paying the various global bodies such as the UN the money you owe them rather than strutting around telling everyone how much you do for them. Bankrupt and arrogant ideas from a bankrupt and arrogant country!
Gareth Morgan, London, UK
Americans like nick hronis are brainwashed into believing that the US saved Europe from the Nazis. History shows that ultimately the Russians broke Hitler's machine, enabling Europe's resistance to be rewarded. The US just turned up for the victory party.
roger, Los Angeles , USA
Wait! People seriously don't believe that what we are doing is God's will????
Increase Mather, New Haven, CT, USA
It's ironic. I come to a foreign news site, and find that in the comments section, more than half of the comments, come from Americans.
All I can say is this: Imagine the world without the US or a severely weakened America. You can't, because if you could, most wouldn't feel the way they do.
Like it or not, you are free because of the blanket of freedom provided by a strong, "meddling" United States.
Some of the anti American comments said here, are very similar to that of a spoiled child. Becareful what you ask, or wish for...You may just get it.
leftistdestroyer, Orland Park, USA, IL
For the head of an evangelical outfit like the C of E to complain of anyone else's "imperialism" is the epitome of hypocrisy. Every missionary is an imperialist.
Nick, Rotherham, UK
As far as I know people speak pretty freely in Poland, Hungary, Estonia, and other countries that after WW2, where left over to Stalin - a leader of pretty much the same caliber as Hitler. To say that Western Europe would be under Nazi rule today if the US had not intervened is nonsense. Who knows, maybe a Nazi victory in WW2 would have turned the picture upside down - and the tearing down of the Berlin wall in 1989 would have been between a democratic, capitalist, and free East and a totalitarian, nazist, West? And yes, Americans did save my Grandfather, and I am as happy as he is for that, but as he keep telling me: "George W. Bush is the worst catastrophe to hit the US since the Civil War".
It doesn't matter what you did and did not do in WW2 60 years ago, if you are going to create WW3 tomorrow!
Tord Steiro, Ã s, Norway
Bravo for Rowan Williams. As most of the Americans posting on here realize, this is an extremely valid and globally shared criticism of US foreign policy under the current administration, not of individual American people, why do others have difficulty seeing this?
As for those still using the old line, "If it wasn't for us [or rather for our forefathers], you'd be living under Nazism," the Russians contributed just as much, if not more, to beating them, but we haven't had 60+ years of Russians telling us how grateful we should all be to their nation. I AM very grateful to those in my family who fought and died to defeat Nazism, as I am as to all the heroic Americans, Russians and others who also did so, but I don't feel the need to use those brave men's lives as an excuse every time the leaders of my nation (Britain) are responsible for implementing devastating and shameful foreign policies - as we were in the past and still are while blindly following Bush, Cheney and Co.
Ruth (British expat), Salwa, Kuwait
The Archbishop's comments clearly illutsrate that no individual or group has a monopoly on making stupid comments!
Trevor Jones, Sarasota, United States
Oh how truly tiresome the self loathing of the apologist / revisionist intellectuals has become. Everything the US did or does is wrong and all the other countries and cultures in the world are victims of the 'evil' American empire. Isn't it convenient how the meaning of the word 'empire' has been redefined, so critics can lump the US into the same category as actual empires from history.
The US is not an empire. It is a hegemonic power. The US holds that position because of the political-economic-social principles on which it was founded, the European and Asian wars of the early 20th century and the lack of any other country offering a viable alternative.
Stuart, Fairfax, USA / VA
It is interesting how the American right goes ballistic when someone else holds up a mirror so that they can see their own warts.
Jon Maynard, Lansing, MI, USA
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, China is rising.
Ivan Hurnet, Oxford,
From the tone of many of the comments from my fellow Americans, it seems they are still locked in denial of the consequences of Washington's confrontational, interventionist foreign policy. Our nation flirts with proto-fascism,the dollar is crashing, toxic sub-prime debt is our greatest export (after weapons) and still these hubristic, self-righteous twits don't get it. Who asked America to run the world - answer, no one. Support Ron Paul before it is too late...
Samuel, Tampa, USA
What is being overlooked is the fact that there is a worldwide movement to destroy the national sovereignty of all nations so they, in their desperation, can be merged into a New World Order or One World Government along with a Universal Church to condone their activity.
In order to counter this we must insist that all tentacles of intervention are removed, that all nations restore their national sovereignty and reinstall national pride.
Once this has been accomplished we can seek out mutual agreements as to trade, investments etc. There is an old saying that would apply. YOUR freedom ends where my nose begins and MY freedom ends where your nose begins. If we can agree on this we can get along just fine.
Clarence Jaeger, Murfreesboro, USA Tennessee
As an American, I apologize to the world for our criminal gov't. I only hope other Americans will wake up fast enough before other wars break out in our names.
John Prison, rochester, ny
The UK owes we Americans nothing in terms of thanks for WW2 because the British fought alongside us. The French, however, owe us BOTH big time!
All you disaffected Anglicans are welcome to come home to Rome!
John, Fairborn, Ohio, US
Thank you Archbishop.
It's wonderful to see that somewhere in the West, not everybody has taken leave of their senses in supporting the US in their mindless crusade for oil.
Maybe one day, the West will no longer be adrift, and the American leadership will no longer dominate the world's decisions. It's something that, at present, we can only pray for.
Leigh, ACT, Australia
Now that Rowan has gone on record as disapproving of foreigners barging into places and telling people how to run their affairs, perhaps he could share that insight with Venables, Akinola, and the other would-be imperialists in our church, an institution on which he can actually have some meaningful influence.
Jay, Panama City, Florida, USA
Wow....maybe that should have been said in 1939 or 1940, eh?
The people who need America don't seem to mind that we're especially good at military actions. It seems that only when they're not needed do the complaints begin.
Robert Stout, La Vernia, TX USA
He is right, you know. Americans have bought into a civil religion that they can make the world a better place by forcing their own foolishness upon the rest of the "backward" world, not through persuasion but through violence. The flag waving nabobs believe they are doing a great work when in fact America is destroying itself. The soldiers have become murderous dupes for a government that has nothing to do with traditional American values anymore. Americans have been played for the proud fools they are. Their soldiers and weapons are everywhere they shouldn't be. Yet the border with Mexico remains unguarded as our leaders ignore the real peril. Gotta go now, it's time for American Idol.
Julian Carswell, Kingston, Ohio
Many of the issues in the Arab world can be traced to "Imperial" Europe following WW1. France and England wanted to carve up the Middle East into colonies. Sound familar? America is not an "Imperial" nation. You may dislike the policies but some action is better than the inaction of the rest of the world.
Matt, Alexandria, VA
i would ask the good reverend to read Sir Winstons book The Gathering Storm".
the similarities of the rise of Hitlers regime and that of the Muslims is frighteningly familiar .
And the good people of the United Kingdom are again on the front line.
G Hartman, galesburg, mi usa
.
toekneemac, Orland Park, USA, IL
These remarks are distressing, to be sure, but most likely represent little but the elite opinion of the UK (and US) left. After all, one can find the same foolishness on the editorial pages of the New York Times, The Boston Globe, and virtually any newspaper from the American left coast (with the possible exception of the Sacramento Bee).
A question, though: If, in keeping with the mutual protection clause of the NATO charter, the UK had sent troops to help its "special partner" across the Atlantic following the 9/11 attacks, would the more likely reaction from the American people have been A) gratitude for a sincere--though needless--effort from a true friend or B) ingrateful revisionism, describing the generous effort as an attempt re-colonize a former part of the Commonwealth, or some such tripe?
Just a thought.
It is entirely just that the Americans should object to being called "imperialists" by those to whom they have ever been loyal friends.
D. H. Fernald, Bath, ME
Anti-Americanism really has reached new heights when we have comments crediting victory in WW2 to the Soviets. How'd that work out for Poland? The main criticism seems to the USA didn't join the fight quickly enough, the exact opposite of the criticism now.
Korea & Vietnam were fought for the noble cause of preventing the spread of Communism. Blood & treasure were spilled to no avail in Vietnam, and many mistakes were made, but the cause was by no means unworthy.
Mac, Northbrook, Illinois
Why do so many readers act surprised or outraged that the U.S. acts in a way to further its influence and perceived national interests? A nation will always use whatever power it has, economic, military or other, to protect and further its own perceived interests. This is a fundamental and unchangeable characteristic of all people groups, whether organized into labor unions, corporations or nation-states; to fantasize otherwise is ignorant and simply naive. In invading Afghanistan and Iraq, the U.S. was acting, rightly or wrongly, in its perceived best security interests. That said, many nations differ to the degree of ruthlessness they will use their power to pursue their perceived interests (witness Imperial Britain, Napoleanic France, Nazi Germany, or Stalinist Russia). Today, many fear America as a bully, maybe rightly so. But given America's great power, most should be thankful that America is a relatively nice bully. Frankly speaking, it could be much, much worse...
Dave, N.Y. , New York, USA
I think that Archbishop Rowan Martin is one of the funniest comedians I have seen in a long time and I hope that he makes a new movie soon.
Edward Frank, Sun City Center, Florida
First, I would like to know who died and appointed Rowan Williams judge of American foreign policy?
I do not particularly care to hear criticism of the U.S. for its imperialist excesses from a Briton -- especially in view of the imperialist history of Great Britain. I agree that India is probably a better country because it was once in the British Empire. However, our world is still living with the messes created by British misadventures in places like China, Palestine, and Pakistan.
Second, Archbishop Williams would do well to save some criticism for his own Church of England. Its secular/humanist orientation has left it largely irrelevant in England. Real vitality in the Anglican communion is now found in Asia and Africa.
He might also work on extricating the Episcopal Church in the U.S. from schism.
James Young
James Young, Sierra Vista, Arizona
Christer Lindstrom, Stockholm, Sweden said:
If your grandfather was almost drowning, and my grandfather saved him - how fun do you think it is when I remind you of that 60 years later, and say "You don't show enough appreciation of me"? â¨â¨Finally, I commend the archbishop to speak what we all feel. USA got wonderful people with criminal leaders. Fix it.
I assume you are talking about WW2. If that was the case, Sweden was neutral. No one had to save your Grandfather..
Sweden has wonderful people, with gutless leaders. Fix it.
LJ, New Bern, NC USA
Perhaps Williams should be reminded that without America he would not be able to speak so freely as he does today and Great Britain would be celebrating their 67th anniversary known as Northwest Nazi Germany.
nick hronis, Hollywood, California, USA
To Mr. Lindstrom of Sweden, perhaps if my grandfather and hundreds of thousands of his friends were killed saving your grandfather, we would at least expect you to be a bit circumspect in your criticisms of the way we thereafter conduct ourselves in the water.
Thomas Payne, New York, NY/USA
To Richard from Los Angeles who says that we (americans) should stop giving the world's needy and only give to our (americans) own...........what? like in new orleans after katrina?
Shame on america and shame on its people who allow their government to carry on with its blantent inhumanity, not only to other nations but also to their own. If you can judge a civilisation on how it treats its people, then there is little hope for america.
kim, london,
"I can only ask the world community to give us another chance to again become a member of the world community rather than the bully of the world."????? You must be joking!
-
Camillus, Columbia, USA
Worse than the Bristish Empire?. Hmmm...lets ask, the Irish, Scottish, Arabs, Israeli's, Argentinians, Indians, and pretty much all of the Middle East. This guy is a clown-he cannot even run his own Church?
Mike Reiner, Nanuet, USA
Thanks to the Archbishop for providing the enemies of America the propaganda that they love to spout ," America is the enemy". The anarchists, communists, socialists and all the radical left within the U.S. will use theses words as usual during their hate America rallies. Meanwhile, Iran, Hizbualla, Al-Queda, the Taliban, Chevez etc. also should be grateful for the Archbishops words that will only incite further hatred towards America. Does the world plan of radical Islam, convert or die, seem more appealing?
Aaron Dee, Detroit, U.S.A.
Cross reference Rowan Williams with Neville Chamberlain!
It would be FANTASTIC if the U.S. stopped "intervening abroad" and let all of these countries slide into complete genocide, communist control, and dictatorial oppression. Don't forget, the United States government has no money; it's the citizens of the United States of America who pay out of their hard-earned wages to give BILLIONS in aid to various competing global interests in attempts to avoid LONG "bursts of violence".
Once rid of our annoying (Presumably stupid) "programs of aid", we'll just sit back and cup our right hand to our ear and see if we can pick up the faint cries of the archbishop's final fate under the wise and merciful ways of the East. Maybe they'll let you choose which lamp post you'll swing from.
Los Angeleno, Los Angeles, CA, United States
His historical citation to the Empire's role in India is skewed to say the least. Also, his nostalgiac referernce to the Brit's role in in "fixing" India is the very imperialist arrogance he lambasts the Americans for. Furthermore, his analogy doesn't hold up. He claims the British took over India and "then pour[ed] energy and resources into administering it and normalising it."
What exactly does he suppose is happening in Iraq right now? Rightly or wrongly, that is exactly what 's happening. What is this "other people will put it back together" myth he talks about. Rightly or wrongly the US went into Iraq virtually alone. The US has stayed in Iraq longer than it was involved in WWII...again virtually alone. If the US had withdrawn in 2004 and appealed to the UN to fix the problem, then maybe his comparison would be correct.
No fan of Empire am I -- but don't make bogus analogies to make your native country's former Empire somehow more "moral." What bunk.
Proventlogger, Washington, DC, USA
ROWAN WILLIAMS - He is wrong about the USA [ as are most people abroad ] and he is wrong about his church.
A Wolf in Sheep's Clothing indeed!
Karen, Cherry Hill,NJ USA,
Aging American hating hippie. He's right about one thing, America needs to let the world solve its own problems and isolate itself. The world would not be better off but we would, especially in regard to taxes.
John G, San Angelo, USA/TX
It is interesting to define the short term accomplishment of America in Iraq compared to the historical accomplishment of British Empire in India. As I recall, the British took as much as they gave to India. If we are to fully compare, then let us also compare the American efforts in World War II and post-World War II. Is he truly stating that our involvement in WWII was imperialism? If so, how did America benefit? I don't see colonialism coming out of the US occupation in France and Germany in post WWII. The current purpose in Iraq is no different. While it is arguable about the basis of aggression when the US arrived, that is different than claiming the US is trying to colonize Iraq.
Gary Chancellor, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, USA
We have messed up Iraq, repeating much the same fiasco as the Brits did in the 1920s. We are bullies occupying Iraq now because we can, and that is wrong. It is much worse in my view for the USA to lie about the reasons we are there, and that is what makes me most ashamed of our current government. I pray we come to our senses and toss the Busheviks out and change our course ASAP. I firmly believe we can accomplish more to eliminate the Islamic "threat" by use of good local police work, not by deploying our soldiers as targets in the asymmetrical war on the streets of Iraq.
Richard, Elyria, USA
Here is a world religious leader who has never lead his own flock except way from its own roots. Were it not for his religious ancestors, who were burned at the stake, drawn and quartered, and in a couple of cases, even dug up out of the graves so that they could be hung, he would not be allowed to read the Bible. Of course, it is apparent that even now that he has the right to read it, he doesn't - or if he does, it is devoid of any understanding.
D., Hoosier Uplands, Indiana
I think Mr Archbishop comments on USA about its aggression into some of the area of the world are quite right. The US belligerence not only cause hostile to its partners but also cause hatried to the oppressed people.Some people have a good dream that the US will or would save them if they are in trouble. Rather recue them the US brings nothing to them but chaos and disorder. Look at Iraq ans Afghanastan. Leading the joint force to campaign against terrorism is right, but it also throws the baby out with the bathwater ,thus causes offensive to many reasonable people. They have been kept off democracy and prosperity as they have dreamt.
zeny, Nanchang , China
... he is right ..... regardless of other regemes...(russia, etc) ... the US actions following 911 will have repercutions which will last far longer than the time most of the readers are alive!!
marke, houston, texas
Right-o. Maybe America needs to become more religious. Start praying five times a day...in school.
Lily, Seattle,
The Archbishops analysis of modern western mentality, culture and foreign policies are right on the mark. It is disheartening to see so many commenterâs having such harsh critical opinions about the Archbishops statements. Many people are mentioning unrelated issues like the Saudi gang rape victim being lashed and punished. Yes this is an amazingly disgusting story and I do not agree with it at all. But that is not the issue the Archbishop is addressing at this time. But I would not expect much else from brainwashed Americans who spend nearly all their time watching T.V. It is childish to respond to criticism by criticizing others. We must take a long hard look at ours nation and get involved in the political process. We are approaching a monumental time in human history and we must be ready. Protect your freedoms and demand accountability from our government! The citizens of the U.S. must have power over the government; the government must not have power over the people! Live Free!
Isaac, Phoenix, AZ
General Powell was being introduced by the former Archbishop of Canterbury when the ABC at the time decided to take a shot at the United States. General Powell returned fire quite effectively. I wish I could quote him exactly. The ABC asked the General if the war was not another example of American Imperialism. The General replied something to the effect that it is true the USA had engaged in numerous foreign wars in the 100 years or so but had never taken any territory like The UK had nor had it ever imposed impossible war reperations on another country like the UK and France did after WWI which lead directly to WWII into which England and France dragged the USA for the second time in just over twenty years but that the USA only asked for suffecient land in which to bury her sons who had died on foreign soil in the fight for other peoples freedom other people like . . . the UK and France for instance.
Peace to your Grace from an American Anglican.
James Richard Holt Jr., Huntington, West Virginia
The archbishop reigns over a disintergrating declining Anglican church due to poor leadership and current ideology. Many adherents and priests are being received into the Catholic church. Perhaps he should put his own house in order or join Islam. Like many so called "thinkers" Socialists and the politically correct ramming down our throats that everything the
British did {including the Empire} was wrong and evil and that we should all feel guilty. Well, I don't. I think many people are getting a little sick of it. and as for America.. mind your own business.
hugh dickinson, Huonville, Tasmania
The article seems to be insignificant in this argument. So many patriotic, uninformed Americans on one side, and the rest of the world on the other. Everything you hear or see in America is biased. Even the textbooks in high school aren't objective. The American population is being brainwashed so that the imperialists can continue their business undisturbed.
America, wake up!
Kjetil, Virginia Beach, Norway / USA
"30,000 troops in Korea for 55 years. That is much money we could spend on health care, etc."
The power and weight held by the U.S. is worth far more then our health.
"We have every right to have invaded Iraq the second time to enforce the terms of the cease fire agreement. "
The threat posed by Iraq has been proven time and again to be minimal. It was only used as a stepping stone for further imperialist means.
"The US has not expanded its territory by force since 1898..."
If you think imaginary lines matter in todays world you must be a moron.
"Both will tell you they fought so that fools like the Arch-Bishop of Canterbury could make a complete moron of themselves without worry of being jailed"
The Archbishop should be respected for speaking out.
"it is fashionable in todays anti-American..."
To be critical, dissent and appose government is the only check we have to keep goverment honest. By not practicing these freedoms we will enslave ourselves.
Isaac, Phoenix, AZ
This guy is well known for his radical views. It amazes me (not really) that the press still seek his opinion. We already know what he's going to say: 1. The West is bad, and the cause of all evil, 2. Radical Islam, though taking full responsibility for their evil deeds, is not to be blamed for their actions, and 3. We should submit to the will of terrorists because its wrong for us to want to do anything for our own benefit & safety. Makes a lot of sense, doesn't it?
Brian, Los Angeles, USA
It is a shame that the problems still with us in Africa and the Middle East stem from the imperialistic rule of Europe and Britian and the artificial boundaries and regressive policies which left these areas incapable of civilized behavior. I do not see how the behavior of the USA can be criticized by those who left such a mess behind
Jack, Los Alamos, USA/NM
First and foremost, stop attacking the Anglican Church. This is a discussion of American foreign policy, and any attack on the Church is off-point and merely a tactic to deflect criticism and change the subject.
Secondly, stop reacting in such a knee-jerk fashion. There are valid points to the Archbishop's criticism, just as there are accusations and assertions that are unfair. America has overstepped its boundaries to an extent, and there IS an alarming gap in perceptions between the average American and any other citizen of the world concerning the role of the U.S. in world politics. America is in an intractable war, and continues to commit error after error in its foreign policy. But to call us the "worst imperialistic" power of all time is grossly ignorant history ( Africa, Australia, etc.) Fellow Americans, use your heads. If you automatically discount every criticism, you reinforce the stereotype that we are all crass and close-minded. Actually LISTEN to others, then debate.
EHP, Chapel Hill, USA
It is hard to take at face value the Archbishop's statement that the US is the 'worst' kind of imperialist. I agree with the many commentators here that the US is not imperial. But even if he is simply trying to say our actions are the 'worst' or that our actions create a 'worst of all worlds,' his ignorance is beyond the pale. Certainly there were worse imperialist impulses, such as the Japanese occupation of Northern China (Nanjing!), Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe, Spanish conquest of central and south America. Each much more imperial than what the US is doing in Afghanistan and Iraq and, by arguably most any observer of history, 'worse' as well. Similarly, how can he say today's situation is a 'worst of all worlds?" Wouldn't a terrorist nuclear device destroying London be a worse world?
These statements are so exaggerated that they carry no authority.
Gordon, SANTA MONICA , CA, US
"Steve, Bonita Springs, USA"
Just who are you suggesting is a Catholic here?
The Archbishop of Canterbury is the head of the Anglican religion, that includes the episcopalians in the USA.
A Brit at present in Bonita Springs, Bristol,
What's the phrase? Thou protesteth too much. Judging by the hundreds of vitriolic American responses to this article, perhaps there is something in the saying!
I wonder how many have actually bothered to read the article in Emel, which reads quite differently to the selective quotes in the Sunday Times?
Equally, the amount of jingoistic nonsense posted below, only emphasises just what a concern the United States of America should be to the rest of the world. If Americans don't like others telling them some home truths perhaps I could direct them to one of their own: Noam Chomsky.
Gareth Morgan, London, UK
The Archbishop would be wise not to criticise the British Empire while many of his followers still remember it.
Mark, London, UK
Never blame the book for how reader uses it.
Translation- do not blame religion for what preachers do.
For Americans- do not blame Islam/Christianity for Holy war; it was made by a man not a God.
Kara, London,
The broad thrust of Williamâs observations are beyond serious dispute. However, one must take issue with his defence of British imperialist rule. While it is true that Britain invested heavily in infrastructural development throughout its colonies, virtually of this was directed as facilitating the plunder of indigenous natural and human resources. Indeed, a systematic exorcism of this enduring fantasy, the fantasy of âBritainâs benevolent empireâ, is greatly overdue.
Our American friends appear to be under the misapprehension that their valued contribution to the defeat of Nazism has provided them with an absolute entitlement to unquestioned subservience and loyalty for all time. If they were to pause and revisit history, instead of regurgitating all too pervasive jingoistic Hollywood hagiography, they might discover that Nazi Germany lost WW2 in the East, where some 3/4 of its divisions were annihilated by our great âSovietâ allies at the cost of 25+ million.
Frederick Nathanson, London, UK
I donât believe the Europeans that are reading understand why we do not think that you appreciate our sacrifice in WW2. Itâs the premise of the article! That we are imperialistic. The headline states: US IS WORST IMPERIALIST! We helped win the war, spent blood, money, and effort. Then.. spent money to rebuild the country *and leave* . That is what we do.
We could had stayed in Kuwait..but we left ..
(that action is what proves that we did not go in âjust for oilâ)
I think you get us confused with the Japanese, they took over the Philippines, Burma, Thailand, French Indo-China, British Malaya, Netherlands East Indies, Manchuria Korea, with all its resources, we (with the help of the allies) kicked them out. THEN LEFT.
Or..
Or maybe the Germans, we (with the help of the allies) kick them out of Italy France, Algeria, Poland, Holland, Russia, Czechoslovakia, Ukraine, Belorussia, etc.
Gave them 12 Billion (in 1948 dollars) to rebuild,
THEN LEFT.
These are the same troops that were cheered marching through the streets of Paris.
Calling us Imperialist is belittling to us and our troops and the greatness and honor of our country.
LJ, New Bern, NC USA
Jim Roberts pointed (unwillingly) to the core of the problem. The Americans believe the Bible, only they cannot understand why there is not a word about the US. Their faith is full of abstaining from liquor and sins of flesh. Their most important problems of faith concern the Episcopal Church of the US - those bloody English are putting down our good, God-abiding church business. Dear Americans, first you have to learn something about the World outside the borders of Your country and then You should read very carefully Your New Testament, especially all about loving your neighbour. And please do not forget that your "neighbour" in biblical sense is not only a man living nextdoor.
Mirek Kostal, Prague, Czech republic
Ron Paul is the only candidate that REALLY votes against the War every time. The Democrats in Congress (including ALL the Democrat presidential candidates) all voted for the War. Congress has the power of the purse and to declare war in America.
John Dieter, Houston , TX
In response to Tom Welsh, Basingstoke:
I find it interesting that on one hand you complain that the US âremained carefully neutral right through the German conquest of Europeâ. Then complain that we use our power in time of war.
You also said that: âThe supplies sent to the USSR were of marginal importance - apart from the trucks and telephone wire. British and US tanks were considered death traps by Soviet tankers, accustomed to the superior T34.â
You can belittle our help if you want, but the facts speak for themselves. 14,795 Aircraft / 7,056 Tanks/ 51,503 Jeeps- / 375,883 Trucks- / 35,170 Motorcycles/ 1,981 Locomotives (only 91 were built in Russia between 1940-1945)/ 90 Cargo ships- / 15,417,000 pairs of army boots/ 11,155 railroad freight cars.. If you laid the trucks end to end the line would go for 1,400 miles. The list goes on but you get the point. I could go on with the list for England but I wonât with the exception of 17,000 Sherman tanks that England received. If you placed the tanks end on end it would stretch for 64 miles. Marginal importance indeed.
Tom said: What is the right word for a country that has over 700 military bases worldwide?
That word is: SMART.
LJ, New Bern, NC
How predicatable and how utterly depressing. Dr. Williams must live in a parallel universe. There are malign,despotic, corrupt regimes aplenty and he can only criticise the US. It is infantile, lefty student hogwash. Williams and his ilk have never, ever, levelled the same public damnation on a single crackpot or dispicable left wing regime. And he would certainly not want to offend the Islamists ( or whatever it is we are permitted to call them these days) who would have us all dead. No, far easier to blame the world's woes on the Americans. After all they are not likely to take such offence that it would demand they decapitate you in public. This joker certainly doesn't speak for the whole of Britain.
tony, london, uk
Mr. Archbishop,
Stick to your God and morality and leave politics to politicians.
Subramaniam. P, Paris ,
Europe doesn't owe us anything for WWII (even though it was their war)...you are absolved of any gratitude....as a matter of fact I'm extremely sorry we did anything in that war to save your sorry butts...hope the next time around, we sit it out!
kb mills, Austin,Texas, USA
Hi Bruce! (from L. Northwood, Washington, D.C., USA)
Please read my post; I have already said it, and unequivocally.
Thanks much.
M Rezwanul Hoque, Chittagong, Bangladesh
What the Archbishop says is findamentally true. Of course we need the USA strength along side our other allies in Europe and around the world, but we should all be singing from the same hymn sheet, not pressing ahead with our own adgendas and motives. Have we leant nothing from the past?
The Archbishop is right to mock the "God is on our side" notion of the US. God in whichever religion you care to name, is always there. How well do the American people know the beliefs and aspirations of the average Muslim, or of the average Hindu, Sikh, Buddist?
American policy reminds me of an Engishman abroad, shouting at the French cafe owner to make himself understood, without the slightest thought of trying to speak a word of French. If he doesn't understand, shout louder and then hit him to get your point over.
Simon Cotton, West Mersea, Essex
"Domain database which contains files collected from source systems for periodic processing in the data warehouse for DI. "
Please be aware that the word "liberal" is not a swear word outside the US.
starling, Lancaster,
First off, I love America, I have American family in Philadelphia and I strongly believe in the Special Relationship that exists between us, but can I just say that I am SICK TO DEATH of hearing smug Americans tell us we should forever bow down to them and thank them for saving us in WWII, it's an insult.
The war in Europe was won by THE ALLIES ie UK, USA and USSR. Every American that tells you "If it wasn't for us you'd be speaking German" is spitting on the memory of all the Commonwealth and USSR soldiers (10s of millions of them!) that died to save Europe from the Nazis.
I recently read a WWII history book that put it perfectly, and I quote: "the British gave time, the Americans gave money and the USSR gave men." If anyone else can think of a better way of putting it than this I will be surprised.
J Roberts, Manchester, UK
Check out http://www.standfirminfaith.com for the truth about the Anglican Communion.
Bishop Williams is just angry that orthodox American Christians have called his bluff. He doesn't have a clue about how to stop the Anglican Communion from crumbling. Bible-believing Anglicans in the U.S. are leaving The Episcopal Church of the U.S. because its leadership preaches a false gospel that is heretical and in direct opposition to the teachings of scripture. ABC Williams agrees with the heretics and is impotent in the face of this robust challenge to his hollow authority, so he is lashing out at George W. Bush's America. The really sad part: the leadership of The Episcopal Church in New York City probably agrees with him.
Jim Roberts, Burke, VA
**Wow, so many Americans actually bothering with international news!**
I feel, to an extent, that America has become 'imperialistic' towards the rest of the world. Ok, the average 9-5 working American is probably the nicest person ever... but -collectively- the actions of America towards other countries doesn't make these 'other' countries incredibly fond of America. The constant hypocrisy, lies, conspiracies, 'We Are The Greatest' attitude, the 'totally-not-bothered-about-climate-change' attitude, friendly-fire, political laughing stock, foreign policy, etc, etc... I'm sure an individual American is a fine person, but a group of Americans are toxic!
And, ok, Britain and most other countries aren't perfect... But there's a reason why there's so much discontent towards America... lesser so for all other countries... and before you Americans say anything... it isn't 'Jealousy'!
Sophie, Liverpool, U.K
Who honestly cares what this man says? Britain abandoned the Church long ago, this man has no say and no power anymore so he takes ridiculous stands. To everyone who says that the USA is finished. I've been hearing that my whole life and somehow we still seem to be around and on top. I'm sure this time is different though. Also what's all this nonsense I keep hearing about moral high grounds? I can't think of a single time that any country anywhere has ever claimed a "moral highground", including the USA. Everyone acts in self interest. It is just unfortunate that the majority of Europe is unable to act in their own interests so they demonize the USA for doing what they cannot.
mike, Houston, Texas
To all you undfriendly Russians out there: I once had an old friend ,who had been in the Polish underground during WWII. He told me that he'd had many dealings with both Nazis and Russian troops. His words were: " I preferred the Nazis to the Russians. The Russians could not be trusted".
Americans,as the lot of you, are not without sin. If you were to visit us in the US you'd find a lot of folks who look and sound like you.
No doubt the discourse here is good for all of us. There is much to relieve ourselves of. I Iike to think of it as a discussion amoung friends or would be friends, for that we have the Archbishop to thank.
R.G.Rankin, Keyport, NJ
"What this pinhead has done is join the mobs of anti american automatrons that seem to infest most of Europe. Imagine the world without the U.S. "
Did you ever try to understand where this "antiamericanism" comes from? Maybe it has its roots in the American hegemonial policy: think about Vietnam, Pinochets horrors in Chile, the Shah of Persia, he role of the CIA in the installation of many horrible dictatorships, the arrogance of the American super power which claims to bring democracy but doesn't care if thousands of people get tortured, imprisoned and killed if it serves "corporate America".
I am not a follower of any church, but this bishop is right.
Giovanni, Milano, Italy
This is all very well but Britain is hand-in-hand with this particular venture, if not a primary instigator. Many of the firms which are profiting from this endless 'ordo ab chao' scenario are British, staffed heavily by Britishers or British in origin. It's a bid for an Anglo-American empire, led by those who believe that we've become soft and need another good old world war to shake us up a bit and keep people in their rightful places. Perhaps they are right but they would never dream of personally putting themselves or those that they know in harm's way. They know the white working class has already given up reproducing and it scares them no end. I do agree with the central thesis : the British were like the Greeks, spreading the ideas of the enlightenment. The Americans are like the Romans at the end, using indiscriminate brute power, reliant upon mercenaries and terrified of the barbarian hordes.
Novum ordum seclorum and they really mean it this time.
M.Seshadri, Sydney, Australia
To Europe's shame even Bill Clinton could not ignore the genocide in Bosnia. Thugs and meglomaniacs will persist in hegemony unless thwarted. Citizens will be subjegated by the ruthless; this has been communism's preferred tactic. Check your conscience then tell the world what is wrong with free people choosing their own course. To you Archbishop; will you drop your animus to Britain's successor? Your pronouncements will continue to ring false until you recognize coersion and murder no matter how the purpetrators are dressed. God bless and prosper the peacemakers.
Robert M. Demyanovich, Brighton, USA/Michigan
I can never understand why religious leader's comments are reported by the press. Surely, as this article illustrates, it's better to print the words of educated people who can actually formulate a reasoned argument based on knowledge. This is not news anymore than if Jade Goodie, David Beckham or Amy Whitehouse, suddenly spoke out against imperialism.
While we're talking about religion.....did I get this right? A leader of a religious body is actually talking out against oppression and exploitation? Hmmm something about pots and kettles spring to mind.
Never mind Mr Williams, I'm sure there's a fund raiser for a new church roof somewhere, your comments will go down better there no doubt.
Simon, Edinburgh,
Well at least he did not say as bad as Nazi Germany. Perhaps because many of his Muslim friends supported them during the war, fought with them against the Allies and unlike the hated Americans,often come after you if you criticise them.
No wonder the Churches are empty.
Stephen Rothbart, Prague, Czech Republic
mick fealty, Lisburn, N Ireland:
What about Irish aggression against Irish people? Irish protestant kills Irish catholic and vice versa, that's what the British army went into Ireland to try to prevent in the 60's. What about Irish punishment beatings and kneecappings and Republican AND loyalist involvement in organized crime and the training of international terrorists? The violence is still going on now and the British army has left!
Pot Kettle Black my friend. The Irish have inflicted far worse suffering on themselves than the British army did during the Troubles and that is FACT.
J Roberts, Manchester, UK
I'm sure the Archbishop feels safe making these comments in the knowledge that the Supreme Court doesn't issue fatwahs.
James, Sunderland, England, UK
The Church on many occasion have spoken out about the tyranny of the state. Here we have a state that is terrorising a people. marginalizing them so that we may think them less than human. Disregarding the law and the Geneva convention. We must support any who speak out. and pour scorn and shame on those that don't.
Well done for speaking out evil reigns while good men stand by.
mark , Newcastle, England
I have to say the present situation is not ideal. If the US had played a better hand of chess, then things would have been different.
jsinton, College Park, USA
This is a modern demonstration of one of the reasons that the Colonists left England and went to the American colonies in the first place. Church leaders should lead churches, not try to inflame public opinion in the subject of foreign policy. What this pinhead has done is join the mobs of anti american automatrons that seem to infest most of Europe. Imagine the world without the U.S.
R.D., Hinesville, Ga. USA
When Bush campaigned the first time, he was ready to bring our troops home from all over the world. Then 9/11, and he changed. I understand Afghanistan....but he forgot what country he actually is President of.....he gives more USA tax dollars to foreign countries, trains foreigners to fight for their countries, which they always turn on us....gives our jobs away to more and more foreigners...
Has allowed Mexico to dictate our immigration laws, and has lost all touch with his own citizens.
We do not want to police the world, not keep supporting them...we want foreign countries to stand up and do what is right for their own people, it's time for "tough love" and get out of their business, no more $$$, no more US soldiers....get back to what's happening here!
Barbara, Ky, USA
Scott from Aberdeen says: "Step aside America your time is up."
Well genius, if we pull out it will be up to you to defend your way of life against the Sino-Russian alliance and militant jihaadism.
Personally I would not have turned down the help.
Mudhen Chris, Toledo, Ohio USA
It's tedious to have to keep on repeating the same facts, but there seems to be an unending stream of brainwashed Americans and others who do not know them. (1) The USA did not declare war on any of the Axis powers. It remained carefully neutral right through the German conquest of Europe - including the Battle of Britain and the Blitz - and commenced hostilities only after first Japan, then Germany declared war on it. (2) The supplies sent to the USSR were of marginal importance - apart from the trucks and telephone wire. British and US tanks were considered death traps by Soviet tankers, accustomed to the superior T34. (3) Whether the USA is an imperial power is a semantic quibble; but it has killed more foreigners than many imperial powers ever did. (3-4 million in SE Asia; 2 million and counting in Iraq... and on and on). The USA has bombed more nations since 1945 than the Luftwaffe did in WW2. (4) What is the right word for a country that has over 700 military bases worldwide?
Tom Welsh, Basingstoke,
Paul describes apostasy and perilous times of the last days. "Having a form of godliness; but denying the power thereof: from such turn away." 2 Timothy 3:5
Paul describes the qualifications of a good bishop: "One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjecion with all gravity; (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the Church of God?)
Robert Y. Valentine, Highland, Utah, USA
Most of us Anglicans wish the bishops would focus a bit more on trying to refill churches, rather than trying to run the world. Stick to the knitting, please, however woolly it may seem.
Frank Upton, Solihull,
Just repeat: the USA is bad, the USA is bad, the USA is bad...
DJ in PA, Muncy, PA USA
I think the citizens of the US do not have to defend the US. We are who we are. There are many problems with an arrogant liberal state department. The CIA is also an arrogant liberal outfit. We citizens have to live with the same elitism the worlrd faces. As the world opened their hearts to us with the Katrian hurricane that has shown me the real opinion the world has for my country. I may not know my world history but I would like to know what resourses G.B. poured into India at a loss to the empire. We are having a problem with radical muslims. Banda Acha we witnessed only fellow human being in a very horrible situation and responded. American citizens would be sick if we did not. Our soldiers inspite of politics are more than wiiling to give their lives for the good of any world citizen. Please remind me what did this Bishop say. When America refuses to help people anywhere we no longer deserve to exist.
Joe Covey, Scranton, Pa. USA
That's a shame. I expected more from the archbishop than a simplistic black and white scenario drawn to ridicule the US. No wonder the West is on the brink of self-annihilation.
As a religious leader, he more than anyone else should know about the dark side of religion. If he has nothing praise for a religion that brutalizes women the way Islam does, then he's as clueless as he accuses Bush of being.
Jeff Grace, San Francisco, Ca, USA
The United States is behaving like the Soviet Union did before: it is intervening in other countries in an imperialistic way, at the same time accusing them of being "imperialists" or "racists", i.e. it is using basically Marxist rhetoric (presently called "political correctness") in order to undermine countries it views as competitors. Hence the dismantling of Yugoslavia, the support of Bosnian Muslim, Kosovo Albanian and Chechen terrorists, as wel as the "liberation" of Iraq (that is, from 655,000 inhabitants).
Arthur Rambler, Yushnokurilsk, Russia
It's funny these people who claim the USA's involvement was not crucial to the Allied victory in WWII and argue Americans' knowledge of history is lacking. Without the US victory in the Pacific the Japanese would have dominated the region and given the USSR a two-front war - not to mention that both the English AND the Russians would not have been able to sustain any kind of war effort without American financial support.
Karl, Winnipeg, Canada
The Archbishop is right. The good news is that the United States is a civilized nation, and they do listen to criticism such as this, and will not send a suicide bomber to kill the Archbishop. This is how the west continues to advance; it is man enough to allow and take criticism.
I do regret a bit that the Archbishop has not criticised the other side more strongly, but then would the other side listen? They are not democratic the same way the west is, and it might just have caused another bible-burning frenzy.
Chuck, Bristol, UK
I have just read on the Scotsman site of a young female Saudi sentenced to 6 months lail and 200 lashes for being raped by 6 guys-even from a person like me who detests Muslim influence in Britain, I think commentary is unnecessary.
It is little wonder that the Churches are emptying, that Christianity is failing; with such eccentric leadership the wonder is that there are any COE followers at all.
PAL, Tongue, Sutherland. UK
As an american i am deeply ashamed of the current administration. As a democracy, we asked for what we got by not voting the right way. I dislike though his reference on islam being a good belief system. Its a very violent religion calling for holy wars. Makes the catholic inquistion look like a field day in the park. As to our manufacturing muscle during world war 2, it was not an easy taski getting our industry into a war effort. Also world war 2 ended the US depression.
Philip B Kirschner, Brooklyn,NY, USA
why so surprised so many Americans are commenting?....look at the headline thrown out for bait!
despite the constant droning in US and international media outlets.....delivering filtered visions of arrogant imperialists.....a great many of us are sick of living our lives...working every day, putting a generous portion of our hard earned $$ into the world's emergency kitty, raising our families to be good productive members of planet earth, only to sit down with a cup of coffee on a sunday morning to entertain our brains...maybe learn a thing or two...........stumble on this verbal chum......and are expected to swim on by??.........please
The only reason people feel so free to criticize the US is because they know we won't hold it against them when they come-a-callin'.............that is our legacy
Michelle, Richmond, RI, USA
The esteemed Archbishop touches on what he views as America's "chosen myth" guiding principles, but has nothing to say on radical Islam's view that what the Koran deems as important for Muslims must be 'at the heart of God's purpose for humanity.' Let's see just how long the esteemed Archbishop could publicly preach in, say, Saudi Arabia, before being arrrested, imprisoned or worse. The 'worst of all worlds'
isn't found in America's actions, but rather in the intolerant, my-way-is-the-only-way theology of radical Islam.
DiamondDave, chicago,
It always amazes me that people who owe their cultures sheer existance to the United States are ungrateful enough to not only disparage the U.S. but to say that it is worse than those who wish them dead.
With all of their own internal issues anyone associated with catholocism shouldn't speak morality for at least 50 years.
Steve, Bonita Springs, USA
It is amazing how distorted the language has become.
The USA is an influential country but certainly has no empire in the historical sense of the word.
Its like critics of Margaret Thatcher labeling her a Nazi.
The 'Imperialist' tag is a left over from the Marxist thinking that has largely been forced underground as it has become discredited.
It seems like the Archbishop is trying to curry favor with the Muslim community and the leftist anti-corporate movements in the UK.
Ironically, those movements would undoubtedly love the opportunity to suppress his rights to worship freely unlike the USA which would guarantee his freedom of speech and religion.
michael rutt, los angeles, usa
Alas, the "Imerialist" US Military is at it again...this time in the Indian Ocean delivering life saving supplies and medical care to the victims of the recent cyclones. And we don't care if they are Muslim, Hindu, Christian or Athiest. Where are the Muslim dominated "oil states" in this effort. We have paid them so dearly for their oil, the least they could do is spend a bit of it on humanitarian relief.
Frank, Seattle, WA
He has struck a blow against the biggest travesty of Christianity in recent times -- the hijacking of its language for the nefarious purposes of American imperialism. The naivety and genuine innocence of many of the American responses on this thread show how deep is the enthrallment of Americans to this idol. The adhominem attacks on the speaker, his church and Christianity itself actually suggest to me that all three are more relevant that is sometimes imagined. The Gospel was surely never more verified nor more clearly needed than in these times where the largest allegedly Christian nation is openly justifying torture and fomenting war. To most Europeans the Archbishop will seem to be pointing out the obvious, though they may be happy that a churchman says it, and to most Americans he will seem to be gratuitously insulting their country. The divide of perception here is vast -- vaster than that between Sunni and Shiite!
Joseph S. O'Leary, Tokyo, Japan
To Patrick Ryan in Dublin & Ben McCarley in Oklahoma City: Actually, the United States played a bigger role in winning World War II than both of you suggest. I've heard both pro-American and anti-American views that claim that the war would have been won by the USSR eventually. Who supplied the Soviets with arms to fight the Nazis? It was the United States through the Lend Lease Act. The USA used $11 billion in taxpayer's money to arm the USSR through the lend lease act. Americans also donated money to help the Soviets fight the Nazis through organizations like the U.S. Russian War Relief & the Red Cross. The timeframe for arming the USSR was Sept 1941 to Sept 1945. One of the reasons the USA supplied the USSR with arms was to keep Stalin in the war and preventing him from signing another peace treaty with Hitler. These facts are rarely mentioned in the USA or UK and they were denied in the USSR and Russia until the 1990s.
C. Reb, Jacksonville, FL, USA
As I still have the freedom of voicing my personal opinions, I know which so-called imperialistic superpower to chose to defend my conception of democracy
Ray , Hombeek, Belgium
It is indeed interesting that the Archbishop,in an interview with a Muslim magazine, blasts America, a land of freedom for all Religions and persuasion, and goes easy on The Muslims, who have a position of intolerance and "Death to the Infidels", meaning anyone who is not a Muslim.
Ralph, Parker, U.S. Colorado
In a country where religion is viewed with scorn, Archbishop Williams is fighting for relevance by commenting on international affairs. He should concentrate his energies on having people attend his church and less on the dynamics of global politics which he obviously cannot grasp. There is no wonder why the Anglican church has little or no relevance in daily British life.
LTP, Jenkintown, USA
Saudi women get gang raped, then punished by the government with hundreds of lashes. Christian girls get beheaded on their way to school in SE Asia. Chechen rebels slaughter hundreds of kids and their teachers. People get imprisoned for wearing Western clothing in Iran. Van Gogh gets slaughtered in the Netherlands. Honor killings appearing in countries with growing Muslim populations. The list of those things that none of these so-called Christian leaders really fail to address goes on and on.
As Europe gets overrun with Muslims, due to a suicidal immigration policy and a decline in Christian church attendance and a decline of the influence of Christian values in the common law, more and more populist appeasers will appear, since their audience is becoming more non-existent.
Is it any coincidence that Anglican churches are empty? Maybe the good Archbishop should concern himself more with his ever declining congregation, than the UK's best friend.
Mark, Brooklyn, New York
This guy longs for part of Britian's past, but wants to absolve any wrongdoings of the British Empire by saying it was a "good" emipre. First of all, America is not an empire. If it were, we would have much more than 50 states by now. That is not to say America has not made mistakes, but I strongly doubt we couldn't list an equal portion made by the Brits. And their, intent or approach was not better.... remember why we had our revolution.... it wasn't becasue the British were gentlemen.
Why the comparison of who is worse among friends? Why isn't he addressing the inflexibility, cruelty, and dogmatism of Islam and its attacks on the west, buddhists, its own, or anyone who objects with some imam's agenda.... including Britian remind you.
"There is no more retrograde force on this planet than Islam" - Winston Churchill. Keep giving them more so it goes away Chamberlain.... er archbishop.
We love Britian... but this we should be allowed to be offended by this rubbish.
Trevor, San Ramon, CA, USA
What a silly notion that the USA is imperalistic! We are just the opposite of imperalistic otherwise A large part of Europe, Japan, Korea, Central/South American would all be saluting the 'Stars and Stripes' every day...and, we do invade other lands with our culture...not forced on the natives but readily accepted and garnered because they enjoy the many freedoms, choices, and benefits that come from our culture.Between the USA Government and private citizens, 100s of billions of dollars every year go into all sorts of charities.Is there any category of beneficial endeavor where the USA is not a leader whether it be medical, judicial, science, agriculture, manufacture, technology,space reseach?
Of course not...the USA is a country that loves excellence and winning 'cause the result of not loving those things is decay, decadence, poverty, and ignorance. Does anyone really think this world would be better off without the USA? The thought ought to frighten the heck out of everyone
kb mills, Austin,Texas, USA
Perhaps the leaders of the US government (who will take a revolutionary war to dismantle) are imperialistic, but the American people are NOT imperialistic. We LOVE our freedoms and don't want to be ruled by others who have less.
Take a look at our history in times of need by people all over the world.
Kelly Stamper, Santee, USA/CA
A flacid Church, in a socialist/secular society complains that America is the Imperial Monster. Imperialism used to mean we were spreading Christianity to a lost world. Now I guess it means free markets and trade. Oh, Christiandom where have you gone. You certainly are in Great Britian and here in the States we are gripped in apathy, Lord Save US.
RM.Macdonald, San Francisco, U.S.A.
First- Americas involvement in WWII WAS crucial
America was not forced buy Pearl Harbor. America was taken into WWII by a Democratic President on principle. People love to take shots at America unless they need some support.
Finally, America is coming around again. Those who continue to attack our way of life by killing Americans need not agree with it, They would be wise however to remember the lessons of WWII. Ask Japan. It Is Not Worth It!
Dale , Chicago, Illinois USA
Two words: Neville Chamberlain.
Lisa Brehm, Houston, USA/Texas
Tell the archbishop to go pound sand. If the U.S.A. doesn't stand against Islamic Terrorism, then who will?
Charlie, Charleston, WV, U.S.A.
A man after the heart of another famous British appeaser; Neville Chamberlin. Without a doubt, the Archbishop is foolish.
M. Bathurst, Portland, USA
Rowan Williams reminds me in physical appearance of my uncle, a Welsh pseudo-intellectual Presbyterian minister, who hasn't worked a day in his life and is completely bonkers.
Rick, Somewhere, Maryland, USA
I have a hard time understanding why we are talking now about what has been done. That accomplishes SO much.
Even so, it is good to remember that not all Americans believe one way or the other. My hardest disagreements have been with Europeans who want to characterize all Americans as this or that, though Americans never say such and such is true of all of Europe. We are not all the same.
As for our foreign policy for the past 8 years, everyone agrees it's a travesty, but no one was willing to accept responsibility for fixing the global problems we faced at that time. Get off your high horse, Archbishop. Establishing/facilitating order is more complicated than it was several hundred years ago. Your ideas about our role/mission in the world are projections of the world onto us, nothing more. I think most all Americans would be glad if people around the world could maintain order all on their own, but they look to us. Like it or not, it's the simple truth.
Matthew, Where independence was won, Virginia